For scale-invariant deep networks, Hyperball-style optimizers have shown strong performance in large-scale training by fixing the norms of matrix-valued parameters and normalizing updates. However, the source of their advantage remains unclear. Starting from the angular displacement between consecutive parameter states, we derive an angular effective learning rate that accounts for the parameter-update angle, parameter norm, and update norm. We also show that the conventional norm-based measure is a special case under parameter-update orthogonality. We then decompose optimizer updates into radial and tangential components and analyze how radial updates affect one-step angular displacement. Under the training configurations considered, numerical results show that the radial component has only a limited direct effect on the angular effective learning rate. It therefore cannot explain why MuonH converges more slowly than MuonWD early in training but overtakes it later. To further isolate the underlying mechanism, we devise a heuristic experiment that modifies only the learning-rate schedule so that the dynamics of each optimizer reproduce those of the other. The results suggest that their main difference stems from the evolution of the effective step size rather than an intrinsically superior update direction induced by Hyperball. Our pretraining experiments further show that more aggressive learning-rate decay can accelerate MuonH early in training but may impair its later performance. Thus, maintaining a constant angular velocity does not eliminate the learning-rate-scheduling problem; careful scheduling remains essential to realizing the potential of Hyperball-style optimizers. Our code is publicly available at https://github.com/mangocrazz/hyperball-may-not-be-a-free-lunch.
Yihao Xiao, Jialong Sun, Zitian Gao et al.· 2 citations
On-policy distillation (OPD) transfers teacher capabilities by supervising trajectories sampled from the student's own policy, yet its generalization behavior remains poorly understood, as most studies evaluate OPD on a single domain and on benchmarks close to the training data. We present a controlled study that varies one generalization factor at a time, from in-domain distribution shifts to cross-domain transfer and the multi-teacher setting. We find that OPD transfers a teacher's reasoning behavior rather than its answers to particular problems: training difficulty barely matters, and even problems the teacher never solves are useful. Transfer depends strongly on the origin relationship between teacher and student: same-origin pairs bring the student close to the teacher across languages, reasoning horizons, and even other domains, whereas cross-origin pairs mostly fit the trained distribution. This broad reach is a double-edged sword: since routing prompts to domain experts cannot confine each teacher's influence, combining them yields a mixture-dependent seesaw among their capabilities. These results clarify when OPD generalizes and offer a useful perspective for diagnosing multi-teacher OPD.
Zhaoyi Li, Deyang Kong, Yuan Wei et al.· 0 citations
This work presents a unified black-box RL framework for stable and scalable optimization of general agents through complex harnesses, supporting unified training across heterogeneous execution systems.
Huatong Song, Fei Bai, Ming Yang et al.· 0 citations