We present, to our knowledge, the first end-to-end FP4 RL post-training, in which both the rollout and training policies, including their forward and backward passes, operate at 4-bit precision. A systematic study reveals that the dominant source of degradation in FP4 RL is not training-side quantization error but rollout activation quantization: outliers stretch the dynamic range so far that a large number of activation values underflow to zero under FP4. Counterintuitively, restoring the training policy to higher precision while keeping the rollout in FP4 makes accuracy worse than full FP4 baseline, exposing rollout-training mismatch as the principal failure mode and ruling out standard pretraining-style fixes. We address this with Rollout Residual Quantization (Rollout-ResQ): a single residual correction term constrained to a hardware-friendly sparsity pattern, added only to the FP4 rollout matmul -- a lightweight correction that recovers most of the precision lost to outlier-driven underflow without inflating the rollout's compute footprint. On Qwen2.5-3B and Qwen2.5-Math-7B, Rollout-ResQ paired with the HiFloat4 (HiF4) format -- whose three-level hierarchical scaling preserves resolution under FP4's tight 4-bit budget -- closes the accuracy gap to BF16 from 4.9% to 1.1%, bringing fully quantized FP4 RL within striking distance of full precision. Applied to the open-standard MXFP4, the same recipe narrows the gap from 13.6% to 5.3%, revealing that FP4 format choice is a key factor that determines the ceiling on recoverable accuracy. Together, these results establish HiF4 as the enabling format for end-to-end FP4 RL post-training, and Rollout-ResQ as the activation-side mechanism that makes the gap to BF16 closable.
H. Mak, Shadan Golestan, H. Le et al.· 0 citations
Reducing training precision is a key lever for improving the e ciency of large language model (LLM) training, but pushing beyond FP8 to 4-bit oating point (FP4) remains challenging due to instability during optimization. We identify a fundamental source of this instability in existing microscaling approaches: scale inconsistency induced by tensor transposition. In conventional 1D block quantization, forward and backward passes assign di erent scaling factors to the same values after transposition, leading to biased and unstable gradient updates. To address this issue, we propose a low-precision training framework based on 2D block FP4 quantization, which enforces transposition-invariant scaling and preserves consistency between forward and backward computations. We further combine this with truncation-free scaling and stochastic rounding to control quantization error and maintain unbiased gradients. To handle the sensitivity of attention mechanisms, we adopt MXFP8 quantization for query and key projections, yielding a practical mixed-precision design. We evaluate our method on dense LLMs up to 7B parameters and a 30B Mixture-of-Experts model, trained on up to 100B tokens. Across all settings, our approach achieves stable end-to-end FP4 training and closely matches BF16 performance, with less than 1.3% degradation in perplexity and downstream accuracy. These results demonstrate that enforcing forwardbackward scaling consistency is su cient to enable practical FP4 training at scale, providing a simple and e ective pathway toward more e cient LLM training.
Mehdi Rahimifar, Amin Darabi, Mehran Taghian Jazi et al.· 1 citation
Low-bit quantization offers a promising avenue for reducing the computational and memory demands of Multimodal Large Language Models (MLLMs). Recent hardware support for low-precision formats, ranging from MXFP8 to ultra-low-bit formats such as MXFP4 and HiF4, has accelerated research into efficient MLLM training and deployment. In this work, we present a systematic study of these quantization schemes in representative MLLMs that span both video generation and reasoning tasks. Our analysis shows that MXFP8 achieves near-lossless performance, whereas aggressive 4-bit quantization leads to significant degradation. Through extensive ablations, we identify activation quantization as the primary source of this performance loss, contributing substantially more than weight quantization. Motivated by this observation, we propose Residual Fallback Quantization (RFQ), a lightweight activation reconstruction framework that supplements the primary ulta-low-bit activation representation with an auxiliary quantized residual pathway. By explicitly modeling and compensating for quantization errors, RFQ improves activation fidelity while preserving the efficiency advantages of ultra-low-bit computation. RFQ requires no architectural modifications and incurs negligible computational overhead. Extensive experiments on Wan2.2 and Qwen3-VL demonstrate that RFQ consistently recovers a substantial portion of the performance lost under the quantization of MXFP4 and HiF4, significantly narrowing the gap to BF16 baselines across both generation and 4 reasoning benchmarks. Our findings establish activation quantization as the dominant bottleneck in ultra-low-bit MLLMs and highlight residual-based activation reconstruction as an effective and practical strategy for robust 4-bit deployment.